Ep 65 - Growing as a Leader of Your Nature-Based Team
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[00:00:00] Welcome to Therapy in the Great Outdoors, the podcast where we explore the business and practice of nature based pediatric therapy of all kinds. If you're an outdoor loving pediatric practitioner in the fields of occupational, physical, or speech therapy, social work, or mental health, this podcast will help you start and grow a successful nature based practice or program.
I am the ever honest, always a hundred percent real. You'll hear it all on this podcast. Dr. Laura Park Figueroa. I'm a pediatric OT with over 20 years of experience and I run a thriving nature based practice with profitable locations in two different states and multi six figures in revenue. I also host the free online community at therapyinthegreatoutdoors.
com to help you pursue your nature based therapy dreams too. Are you ready to take action on those dreams? Let's jump [00:01:00] in.
Hello, welcome to episode 65 of Therapy in the Great Outdoors. I'm Laura Park Figueroa, and today we have a really wonderful episode with a super savvy nature based business owner. Shannon Rolph from Ontario, Canada is here, and she is going to talk with us about growing her nature based practice. You might notice if you've listened to previous episodes that a lot of these live business coaching calls that I do with all of you revolve around this idea of when you hit the point where you need to hire people or your business cannot grow.
You may have heard me say this before that I think a lot of us start out just as an individual in our nature based practice and we then we become surprised at how quickly the practice grows and we have a wait list and then we need to think about hiring. It is actually a really bad thing for your business.
It can be a bad thing. If your business [00:02:00] has too long of a waitlist with people waiting on a waitlist for too long, it can actually give your business like a bad feeling in the community that people have been on a waitlist for way too long to get in. Right? So you want to be able to keep up with the demand in your practice.
In this episode, Shannon talks about. Wanting to be a really good leader for the team that she is developing in her practice. We talk about how to establish policies and procedures up front with your employees while also maintaining your autonomy as the business owner to make changes in the future if needed.
We also discuss strategies for establishing financial incentives for your employees, ways to foster team community in alignment with the business priorities and goals. As well as why it is important for all nature based business owners to have other nature based business owner friends. So you might notice that a lot of these things are things that I have [00:03:00] mentioned before, or are things that if you are running a nature based business, you might feel the need for these things, right?
You, you might feel the need for, Oh my gosh, I need to learn how to do these things because these are problems that all of us have when we are starting to grow our practices. If that is you, if you are feeling that, oh my gosh, I really need these things type of feeling, then you need to consider joining us inside of the Business Hive.
The Business Hive is my six month group coaching program that I run for nature based business owners. You have the option to stay in as long as you want after those six months. And in the program, I take people through my business that rocks curriculum, which helps you to set up systems in your nature based business so that your business is as automated as possible so that you as the owner can work less and pay yourself more as the business grows.
I have done this. [00:04:00] I feel like just now I am reaping the benefits of the years of hard work I have put in. into developing all these systems and a great team in my business in order to have time, freedom, money, freedom, and flexibility in my schedule. This is what all of us want, right? We want a job that is meaningful, that we really feel the meaning in, and the value behind, and that we're doing good in the world as therapists.
Yet also, we want to be able to live our lives, to have a balanced life where we have time for our family members, our friends, activities we want to do, we have time to take care of our health, all of the things that make a life rich and meaningful. are not work. Like a lot of those things, if you have time and money freedom that is given to you by your business, if you establish these systems early on, then you can have that life in a few years.
So I'm not going to lie, starting a nature based practice, starting any business, really, is [00:05:00] is a grind. It is hard. There are lots of things that you have to do when you are starting your business. But inside the business hive, we have that community of people who can support you, who support one another, and you have me helping guide you from all of my years of experience.
To help you one, get here so much faster than I did. I'm in year nine of running my business right now. And also to just save a lot of time and energy and money along the way. So if you're interested, if it sounds like something you might want to invest in for your business, you can go to therapyandthegreatoutdoors.
com backslash hive, H I V E like busy bees working together in a hive. Get all the info there and join the waitlist. I will be opening enrollment at the end of May. So in just a week or two from the time this will be published for a cohort to run from June till December. Okay. Now that the announcement is over about the hive, [00:06:00] let's dive in to this live coaching call for Shannon Rolph.
Laura Park Figueroa: Welcome everyone. Back to another episode of Therapy in the Great Outdoors today. I'm so excited because I have, I feel like she's a friend, but we've actually never met in person because we've communicated on Instagram over the years, but now it's nice to see your face, Shannon, in person.
Live view instead of any circle on Instagram. So Totally.
Rolph is here and she's an OT and a psychotherapist. So I want her to talk to us about how the progression of her career has gone. And she's been running a. a private practice since 2019 and started doing nature based work in 2021. And we're going to talk a little bit about the questions you have around growing the business.
So let's start off though by saying welcome. Thanks for being here. And also tell everyone a little about yourself and your business where you're at right now.
Shannon Rolph: Sounds great. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Yeah, [00:07:00] so my name is Shannon. I am an OT in Guelph, Ontario, Canada. I started my private practice in 2019 as just like a really off the side of my desk as I was working two other jobs. And
then
it really quickly Bloomed into this thing that could be just my full time role. And then the nature based piece of my practice really started after the pandemic, no, mid pandemic actually. And so that was this really cool, it was like stumbling into this thing as a result of our family, just trying to get through and
recognizing
how much better life was outside. And thinking, if it's better with my own kids outside, then certainly, with my OT kids, also, it's going to be better outside.
And so it started as just one group, and then it's grown from there. Yeah. So that's, my practice in a small nutshell.
Laura Park Figueroa: Tell me about the, were you a psychotherapist before you became an OT [00:08:00] or did you go back to do that? Kind of what was your, your path there? Because I really, I love this. I think it's really cool when people have training in two different areas. fields. I actually wish in retrospect, I had done a PhD in a different field.
Honestly, like I love OT, of course, but my undergrad and my master's and my doctorate are all in OT, you know, and it just kind of limits you. Yeah. Deep dive
Shannon Rolph: Yeah.
Laura Park Figueroa: truly an OT, you know, but but I think it's really
cool. You know, Some people are PTs and OTs, they go back and do both or whatever. And so I, I, I do think it brings a special Kind of thing to your work when you have that.
And I do want this podcast to be for multidisciplinary professions. So just tell us a little bit about that and then we'll dive into talking about your business
and helping you with whatever you need
help with.
Shannon Rolph: That sounds great. So here in Ontario, OT is one of six regulated health professions that is allowed to practice the controlled act of psychotherapy.
And [00:09:00] so, yeah, so other professions are, you know, social work, nursing. I would have to pull this up. Psychotherapists, obviously. So my kind of career progression was I got my undergrad in biology, my master's in OT. I worked in like, just straight up OT for years, and then as I transitioned more and more into pediatrics, so initially I worked in adult
OT, and then as I transitioned into pediatrics, I learned that the thing that I actually really loved was supporting around the mental health
piece. So I really loved supporting around anxiety, emotional regulation and so I started taking some courses, and then this shift came in our policies, I want to say five years ago
ish.
Recent. Yeah.
really recent. And so with that, you know, with our college doesn't define it super clearly with enough continuing education
in The field of psychotherapy and then with ongoing supervision. So that's the other thing that we have to do is we have a psychotherapy [00:10:00] supervisor. but with all of that, I'm able to practice as both an OT and a psychotherapist, which
is really cool.
Cause I think it offers this really unique. Lens, right? Where we can do a deeper dive into the mental health piece specifically,
but then
also take the holistic lens that we naturally take as OTs.
Laura Park Figueroa: And OT, I feel like this is so many things I want to say here. So I know this is supposed to be a live coaching call to help you. I didn't really say that at the beginning, but like, this is, this is valuable, I think, for people to hear this this conversation. So yesterday I had a call with, one of the authors of.
This book, Nature Based Therapy which people love, and this is like one of my favorite all time books about nature based therapy and pediatrics and basically,
Catherine Rose is the clinical director and then the other woman, Bonnie, is the director of supervision.
That's not the right title, but basically they run a very large mental health [00:11:00] organization called Human Nature Counseling. I'm going to get it wrong. I'm sorry, y'all, if you're listening. But I want to mention it here because if people are mental health therapists, they offer a significant training. It's like multiple levels and like loads of hours of supervision.
You can only get quote unquote certified through them. We had a discussion about certifying people to do nature based work and how kind of. like, like anyone can do this work. And also we want to be evidence based and, and be well trained to do it. So, But there is a, a thoughtfulness around that because nature belongs to everyone and nature
doesn't really belong to any of us
at the same time, you know?
So it's this, it's this, interesting kind of conundrum when we're saying we're certifying people. So we had this really great discussion around that. , But the reason I bring it up is because they, we were talking kind of about What I do as an OT and how I support like allied health professionals and mental health that we have had some clinical social workers come through the Contigo approach course that I teach.
And so anyway, [00:12:00] we were talking about our programs and they, they do not certify people outside of the mental health kind of umbrella. And it got us into a conversation about how OT actually started in the, as a mental
health.
Shannon Rolph: that's
Laura Park Figueroa: Profession, you
know, and so somehow we've gotten away from this and we have this, I mean, I remember this in my PhD program, having to learn the whole history again of, of OT and how we got away from that and went into this medical model trying to like, quote unquote, validate who we are in some way.
And, and I think in Some ways it has led to a total loss of our identity as a profession because we've lost those ties to the mental health piece. So, To me, what you are sharing about the laws in Canada, including OT, as someone who can become a licensed, you know, I don't know if you call it licensed there.
Psycho
Shannon Rolph: Yeah,
Laura Park Figueroa: Registered.
psychotherapist, like [00:13:00] that is very interesting and I hope that in the U. S. and worldwide, we will start to kind of move in that direction more in the OT profession because at least in the U. S. it is very much a separate, it's, it's very separate. It's like, you don't, You couldn't become a psychotherapist.
I'd have to go back to school for another two years and probably loads of of interning and supervision, as they say, after that, to be, to call myself a psychotherapist in the United States. So good discussion for us to have on the podcast for people to understand differences in, you know, where you live and the titles you use and all those, all those kinds of things.
So, Yeah,
you might want to look into their Their leveled training. It's very significant. It's like a lot of hours and, and supervision and stuff like that, that they, that they take people through. So
Shannon Rolph: Cool.
Laura Park Figueroa: had you heard of them before?
Shannon Rolph: Oh,
I've read their book.
Laura Park Figueroa: Yeah.
You've read the book.
Shannon Rolph: Yeah. But I haven't heard of that specific [00:14:00] business.
Laura Park Figueroa: Yeah, it's
Shannon Rolph: You said human nature?
Laura Park Figueroa: human. It's not on here. They must have just started it last year. I'm going to look it up so that we actually can say it on the podcast. Because I
Human nature counseling. ca counseling with two
Shannon Rolph: Oh, and they're Canadian.
Laura Park Figueroa: is their website. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're a Canadian. Did I not say that? Sorry. Yes. They're a Canadian organization.
Yeah. So interesting because our discussion, you know, they were saying, well, we don't certify OTs because we focus on the mental health professionals, but I wonder too, if there's some, you know, some overlap, if you have done the
training like you have as a psychotherapist, it cause you have that background, right?
Because they, the things I looked that that they cover in their training are very different than. What I teach in the Contigo program, or I mean, there's a lot of alignment, but [00:15:00] there's a lot of very psychotherapy ish stuff.
Shannon Rolph: gotcha.
Laura Park Figueroa: So, Which is appropriate when you are a psychotherapist yeah, health counselor, right?
Shannon Rolph: totally.
Laura Park Figueroa: So anyways, let's talk about your business. So
I know what you had kind of written on your form when you, when you filled it out to schedule this call, but share with the listeners, like, what, where are you at right now?
And what do you really want help on in your business knowing that? So I often tell people We're not going to fix everything or solve everything in a 30 minute call.
But, one way to think about it is thinking about like in your ideal world, what are your dreams for the business and the next three to five years or so?
And then we'll, we'll kind of take it from there. So tell us where you're at and what you're, what you're
hoping for.
Shannon Rolph: So this is coming at a really interesting time because I'm in a very active phase of growth, which is something that I've really resisted for a very long time. So I think my business, I've had a waitlist since 2021, like my business has been ready [00:16:00] to grow. long before I was ready to grow.
But this year I recently hit a point where specifically with Kids in the Woods actually, so it's this, you know, Kids in the Woods is the part of my business where we run these nature based groups, and also I've been doing some nature based one on ones , and it's something that I feel like it's my baby,
you know, like I've nurtured this program into the world. I'm so proud of it and I'm so proud of , how effective and supportive it is for the families in our community. And I'm also hitting a point where I'm ready to not be doing all of the groups. And so me hitting that point kind of aligned with, , running into a therapist who is super passionate about nature based OT.
And so I kind of threw it out there saying , Would you ever be interested in helping me with some of this? And she was like, absolutely. And then just a couple weeks ago, another therapist who's super interested in helping with the nature based work specifically , is like signing on, joining the team.
So I've gone from it being just me to now me and two OTs and an OT assistant.
Laura Park Figueroa: Okay.[00:17:00]
Shannon Rolph: Okay. So it's like blooming and growing, which is beautiful. And the piece that I'm really hoping for some support around is. what it looks like to be a good leader to a team. So I have found in my experience, I've worked in lots of different places in healthcare and I have not had many good examples of leadership.
And it's really important to me that people on my team feel supported and that they want to be there. You know, Like I really, I really want to grow a team. I want to grow a good team.
Laura Park Figueroa: Yeah.
Shannon Rolph: Maybe
that's it in a nutshell. Yeah. I want this to be a team where people want to be there that nurtures their interests and their passions, but also nurtures the business. And I don't know what that looks like.
Laura Park Figueroa: So being a good leader, that is a really big topic. So let me, ask you to get an idea of the team. How much are these people working in your business?
Shannon Rolph: Good question. So one right now is just doing one day a week.
, She also works for another OT company in my town. And [00:18:00] so this is, so she's, yeah, trying to figure out how to make that time work. So one day a week with me. , And then the other OT who's coming on is starting at point five and she hopes to build up to full time.
Laura Park Figueroa: Okay. That's great. So
the first thing that comes to mind, like the biggest lesson I learned when I first hired was that the more time you can give people, the more, the more hours you can give them, the more invested they are in your business. And that sounds completely logical, but I did not know that when I started.
And I had a lot of people who were working full time jobs and just working like a couple hours a week for me. And you can't grow a business that way. There's just, not. Energy or time to give to your business. And it's not that they weren't amazing employees and doing a really great job.
It's just, we're human and we don't have time if we're, if most of our time is spent on another job. So I usually recommend to people to try to hire for as many hours as you can, rather than hire a team where you have three people that are all [00:19:00] working kind of part time.
Now, sometimes you have to do that because.
Shannon Rolph: that's how it goes.
Laura Park Figueroa: It with the
nature of our work, like most of the hours are like after school hours.
And so a full time position can't even, we've had trouble with my full time employee, even figuring out what her caseload could look like. If she doesn't work the Saturday groups, because we know we can always fill Saturday groups.
We always have a wait list for them.
And so in some ways. , I have told her, this is something else that might help you, Shannon. So you don't make the same mistakes
I did. That's the whole purpose of these calls. Let's just show all of Laura's mistakes so that other people don't have to make them. That's basically what I pull from when I am coaching people.
But it's true. It is true. I've made a lot of mistakes and I have learned from them. And I think one thing that's been hard for me is I really try to go above and beyond to , make sure people like their jobs and,
Promise things that, or tell people that I really want them to love their [00:20:00] job.
And so I want them to tell me what they want when they want to work, when they want to do this, this, and this. And at some point , part, of being a good leader is to like, have really clear expectations. And it's been really hard for me because like with this full time employee who we hired her and she was working these two groups on Saturdays.
And one of the things that has come up in our one discussions about how can we make her job better? And what would she really love is that she doesn't want to work on Saturdays,
but that's a big day to
fill in because you can get daytime hours.
Right. So in some ways I w you know, I went back to her and I was like, well, I think the reality in this business is that if we have a full time role, that person is going to be expected to work on Saturdays, you know? But that's really hard to do when you've told someone you want to make sure that they can, you know, love their job and that you're going to do everything you can within reason to like help them really love their work, it's really hard to feel like you have to kind of set boundaries in that way.
So I guess what I'm saying is I don't [00:21:00] know that I'm a. Great leader to model yourself after, but what I have learned in leading a team is that it can be very challenging to balance the needs of the business and our hearts as therapists and as people, because we care about the people that we hire.
And I would, Encourage you to always keep the needs of the business in mind, because ultimately that's your responsibility as the business owner is to make sure that your business exists five, 10 years later to serve more people. Right.
And your business won't exist if you don't keep the needs of the business in mind, and you're just trying to scramble around doing what everybody wants you to do.
If you're a typical therapist, like most of us are, who are, want to please everyone that we, that we interact with and that we work with. Right. So, I Don't know, thoughts on that, or do you you know, are there specific questions that came up as I was pontificating there?
Shannon Rolph: No, even as you were describing that, I'm already I can already think of an example of how I did lead with my heart, right? And it really is that sense of I really want you to want to be here. I want to
[00:22:00] nurture you
as a therapist. Really. Yeah. Like you said, I really want, genuinely want the best for them. Already in a short time, there's already been a situation where I was like, Oh, Probably shouldn't have done that. That probably wasn't, that probably wasn't the route I should have gone.
So I guess there's no short answer to this, but finding that balance between being heart centered, right? Like genuinely caring about your staff. And also like being thoughtful and mindful about the needs of the business and trying to find the balance between those two things.
Laura Park Figueroa: I think having, like,
when you establish, , Expectations or job descriptions or kind of the policies and procedures around hiring, right? When you establish those things, I would definitely recommend that in any policy or procedure that you share with them or that you set up, for example, like bonus structures, like we had a bonus, we still do have a bonus structure in my business.
When I, When I originally set up a bonus structure, that was one of those things where [00:23:00] I felt like, well, now I've done it. I can't ever take it back. And it's like, no, actually you can take it back. You're allowed to do that as the business owner. And you also have to be prepared to know that if that makes people so mad that they leave, then you have to be prepared to
do that.
Now, Realistically, that wouldn't be the only thing that would make someone leave their job like a little 200 bonus or something, you know,
But it's things like that. Like, I would recommend if you make those policies that you you basically tell the employees that these are going to be reviewed on a yearly basis and they're not always a guarantee.
Right.
But the hard thing is with human psychology, it's like, once you. Once you have something, right, it feels like you're losing something. If you have to give it up.
So be very thoughtful about any policy or procedure that you put in place that, makes the business less financially stable, I
guess, or less profitable. , Because I am all for [00:24:00] like highly rewarding employees for the work they do. , And if you want to go down this route, there's a lot we could talk about as far as like compensation wise, like keeping people happy, but also keeping the needs of the business in mind. There are lots of different opinions on that with different coaches and strategists and stuff.
But I do think, that's, that's part of , the challenge is establishing policies and knowing that you as the business owner are allowed to change those in the future if you need to. And and keeping , that kind of, you know, confidence in yourself to make those decisions as the business grows.
So.
Shannon Rolph: Right. As You're describing it, it gives me this sense of like, you know, stepping back and thoughtfully creating these policies, almost creates a container, you know, and then within, within the boundaries of those policies, that's where I can be heart led,
you
Laura Park Figueroa: Yeah, totally.
Shannon Rolph: that still creates, like, a buffer, I guess, for all of us.
It's that like, Brene Brown idea [00:25:00] of like, clear is kind,
right? Like, this still it, it makes sure that things are really clear. I guess something I'm curious about is like, yeah, what kind of like, so you talked about like, bonus structures. Like, What other kind of like, what policies do you think would be really helpful?
Laura Park Figueroa: Yeah. So , let's talk about this. I'm thinking of your original question of like being a good leader. And this is something kind of like when you're saying what policies would be helpful, I'm sort of thinking too, about what policies or procedures or things are in general are helpful for helping a team feel like they have a good leader or
helping a team feel cohesive. Right.
One thing that comes to mind is transparency around pay structure. , And that is something that I initially, when I started did not, I wasn't transparent about like this, you know, this is the pay structure, like you start here and every year you get this and there's a performance review or [00:26:00] whatever.
So I think having clarity around that now, I do still have full control over that and it is not like. Every person in the business knows what every other person makes because I'm allowed and I wrote that into the policy because I'd already learned the lesson about, about maintaining my ability to make decisions without having to ask everyone, you know, cause this is not a cooperative.
This is a business that I own. , But I wrote into the pay structure when I made it transparent and I made a pay structure document that everyone had access to with the bonuses on it and all the benefits and everything. , I basically put a stipulation in there that, you know, Laura reserves the right to, offer.
When we have hard to fill positions to offer more money to people, essentially , that's the reality of needing to staff in your business. And that's an example of like needing to keep the needs of the business in mind. Right. So,, I Think pay transparency around like what the general structure is for pay, I think.
allows employees to kind of feel a sense of [00:27:00] camaraderie and like, there's no secrecy about like who's being paid what in the business because everybody kind of knows if you have this much experience, people know that like the person in my practice who has 22 years of experience as an OT is probably getting paid at the top of the pay
scale, right?
People know the lead therapist gets a 500 bonus every semester for the extra admin work she does whatever, you know, there's like little things like that. For every year, I can't remember what it is off the top of my head. I joke now, like my business is big enough. My business is still so small compared to like Amazon, but the business is big enough now that like everybody has their jobs and I don't know what's going.
You know, there's a lot of things that I'm like, yeah, we have that policy, but with everything else going on, I don't remember. I'd have to like, literally pull up the policy to
look at it. So it's good to write things down. So transparency around pay. I also think having some way for everybody to, to ongoing communicate.
We use
WhatsApp in my business. I don't know if there's a different app that people could use Voxer or whatever. I've heard good things [00:28:00] about Marco Polo too. I don't really know the ins and outs of all of those, but WhatsApp works great for us just for like ongoing kind of communication. And I think that helps people feel connected you have like a remote kind of team where people are working on different days
Shannon Rolph: Cause that's something else I'm
thinking. Yeah. that's the thing with nature based work, right? Is it's not like we're all in a clinic
together where we can touch base as we're coming and going.
Laura Park Figueroa: Yes. So that WhatsApp is really, really important. And we, we have like different threads on that too. So I communicate with my admin team, but then there's also like a group that has admin and all the therapists on it and me, and then we're all together. And then the therapists have like a therapist only group where if they're like really mad at me, they can go vent, you know, I'm just kidding.
I don't think they actually do that. But they have a, they have like their own thread can kind of talk about cases or whatever
that maybe don't need to be looked at by me or the admin assistants that we have in the business. Other things I would say are like, I try to do at least twice a [00:29:00] year.
and, And again, I have a very remote team cause I live 2, 500 miles away from where my main team is. Right. And then I have a team member here. But at least twice a year, I try to get everyone in the California branch where we have most of our employees, we try to do something special. Like when I was back in town, I just took them out to dinner.
It wasn't a huge thing. Right. I did pay them for that time. ,, Because we did end up talking about some things related to the business. , So that's another have really clear expectations, right? If
you're going to do an event like that, like we're going to have a team dinner. Well, Are they being paid to come to that their hourly rate?
Or are they just, is the dinner the payment? Is
it supposed to be a social event and be fun? Because I was kind of surprised afterwards. Cause I had an employee. On the WhatsApp thread say, are we supposed to put last night's dinner time on our time card? And I was like Hmm, are you, I don't know. And was like, well, we did talk about business stuff about our groups and things during, I hadn't intended [00:30:00] that to happen. It just kind of did. And so I was like, yes, we did do work while we were there. So please put that on your time card. But also that then costs the business, . that was like 1, 000 meal, you know, because I paid all the employees, I paid for everybody's meal.
You have to think about things like that before you kind of do these fun events, but. Fun things I think for people are really important as far as like being part of a team, like doing nature based stuff.
You guys could like gather at a park one day and practice whittling skills or
practice fire building or whatever. My team in California has done that. They've gathered to kind of do an outdoor. Um,, In person, they live really, everybody lives really far away from each other. So it's not like they all live really close and can just get together frequently.
So it's still pretty rare, even when I'm not in town , that they get together and do stuff like that. But those type of things, , I think are equally as important as like , the [00:31:00] rewarding people financially for, you know, paying them well and things like that. I have found that with bonuses, people don't really even notice that they're going on their paycheck.
And then I'm like, well, why did the business just spend several thousand dollars? If. Nobody noticed and cared, right? So building that structure around if you are going to do some sort of financial thing , making sure that people know that they're getting it. , like, Even if it's just like Nicole and I worked out, I think we're going to just send a text like congrats.
You just got a bonus on your paycheck of 400 or whatever, so just doing a really good job with, with making people aware of the benefits they are getting if you are going to do some sort of bonus structure. I know that kind of went weird, but what I was
trying to say was the financial incentives are important, but I have also found that therapists sometimes Want more of the personal connection
stuff and that's just as important to them
as like getting paid for [00:32:00] their time that they're spending.
Shannon Rolph: Yeah. And I like, I can relate to that just personally. There was um, I, I used to work at a clinic uh, and it was very much like it was all independent contractors, and so it was very much we were all coming and going, because you only got paid for the time you were seeing clients. , And so there wasn't a lot of time to really connect with the people in the building , and I neared a point where I, I was this close to leaving, and then they hosted a team dinner. And at this team dinner, I was like, gosh, these people are
amazing, you know, And that kept me around.
Like, that kept
Laura Park Figueroa: Great example. Great example.
Other policies and procedures. I feel like having people, there's also a balance when you're at your stage of letting the employees into the process
and letting them into the process of you making decisions in the business while at the same time Maintaining your autonomy as the owner of the business, and I'm, I'm really,
Shannon Rolph: this is very much my challenge
because
[00:33:00] truly what I hope for is people who can come alongside me and like really contribute to growing this program, specifically the nature based work, right? That's what I want and also, I'm recognizing that yeah, there needs to be limits to that too.
And I just, yeah, I guess trial and error is how I figure that out, but
Laura Park Figueroa: well, I think also to just remembering when you communicate with them about, things like valuing their feedback and using, language that does not imply why. That they will get to make the final
decision because ultimately that's your decision, right? Framing things like I would love the team's feedback before I make this decision for the business, you know, something like that, it's like, I want your feedback and we're all going to talk about.
What our feelings are about this certain procedure that we're going to implement or the intake process or the assessment process or whatever. A lot of times it's related to like service delivery, right? When they're, When
they're, talking with us about [00:34:00] things. , And I do feel like just now, I mean, I'm in my ninth year of running the business and I feel like just now, , we really are to a place where people do feel like they can give us feedback.
That's why the. staff meeting at the at the dinner kind of became like this. Let's talk about, well, you know, we, we were thinking about trial visits, but could we do trial visits and what would that look like? And what if we did this for the older kids? You know, like we just kind of started talking about all these things and, and it was very, I felt very comfortable doing it with them because we've had enough conversations in our staff meetings where we're kind of talking through these things and then I will take all their feedback into consideration and make a decision.
And it's it's almost just as much about being heard more so than it is then about the, the actual final decision.
If people are heard and they know that their their input was, was valued and received and thought through before the decision was made, I think it really goes a long way towards them accepting if the decision wasn't [00:35:00] exactly what they
wanted it to be. So,
Shannon Rolph: hearing a lot about communication just the importance of really
clear, thoughtful communication.
yes,
which you are clearly
Laura Park Figueroa: good at.
You, you really are.
You're, able to articulate your thoughts really clearly. And
, you can talk about your business really clearly, even just in this conversation. Right? So I feel like you are well set up to do this. Um, a Reference that I should show you is this.
Have you heard me talk about this book before? I'm just pulling books off my shelves today. Traction?. Have you? Have you heard me talk about this? Okay. So this book, this is the book that I recommend for all business owners in general, but nature based business owners when you're hiring a team. Okay. So
Traction Get a Grip on Your Business by Gino Wickman.
Shannon Rolph: Okay.
Laura Park Figueroa: W I C K M A N. And he, basically, , it's a little bit overwhelming. Okay. It's, , for a brand new [00:36:00] business owner. I would never tell someone to read this book if they had just started their practice. It is way too overwhelming.
It is perfect for someone who is in your stage right now where you are hiring a team, you're starting to manage people because there's a lot in it about like the procedure we use in my practice for our staff meetings, we have it all like basically timed out. It's five minutes for this, five minutes for this, 10 minutes for this, 20 minutes for this, five minutes for this, and then like an hour for the problem solving, kind of like talking about ideas and discussing things like those things we need to make decisions
on. And so , the framework for that came out of this book and we modified it a little bit cause we felt like it was a little, Didn't, you know, not everything, a lot of the stuff you're going to read in business books doesn't work for like a therapy practice, especially in nature based practice. There's a lot of like things that didn't fit in this book too, but I do feel like it's huge. this book is huge on getting systems in place in [00:37:00] order to manage a team and grow a business. That's like for the growth stage. It's a really good book.
So that's one I would highly recommend. I actually , I did a mastermind a few years ago with a really really small group. ,
business coaching program with six people. I think we're in it. And I, and we went through this and I I created all of these like cheat sheets for them, which are now , in my business coaching program. Now the hive, because it can be a lot to get through the book, but there's just these key concepts that are very important in there that will help you manage and grow a team.
I
think it's. I think it's a really good resource.
Shannon Rolph: Amazing. Thank
you.
Laura Park Figueroa: yeah. What else? What else is top of mind? Do you feel like we got a few things rolling for you in your brain? Like some gears turning?
Shannon Rolph: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think too, I get really in my head about what it should look like and how hard it's gonna be to
get
there, you know? But one of the things that I think I'm taking away from this conversation is that like, keeping the focus on [00:38:00] like really, it's the basics, isn't it?
Like keeping the focus on systems. Policies, communication,
Laura Park Figueroa: Yeah.
Yeah.
Shannon Rolph: those like, those are things I can do can do.
Laura Park Figueroa: absolutely. Absolutely. And you can only do the next thing.
At any given point in time
in your business, you can only do the very next thing
in front of you. That's kind of
How you grow a business is like, what's the next thing I can do today to get me towards whatever the goal is. Right. So there's there's a lot in this book too, in the traction book about like setting quarterly goals, having Vision for the whole team to know what the goal is for that
year, what the goals are for that quarter, which I think will kind of help you as a business owner to to know, , what's so when I said, what's the next step?
I immediately thought towards the quarterly goal, but I realized I hadn't talked about that yet. That's why I mentioned, But it's like, what are your main few goals for that quarter for that three month time period? And the whole team is working [00:39:00] on all of those together. And it really forces you as the business owner to know what you're supposed to be working on too.
Like
mine are on my wall right here. You'll, I often on calls, we'll be like looking to the right at my wall because I have Q2 goals, hire for Wisconsin, employee step ladder, template for monthly newsletter for OKOT. And, , Update Trello board and training manual for fieldwork students. So I know exactly like those are the four things that I have to focus on for these 12 weeks
before the end of June in order to like get those systems in place in my business.
And yours will look totally different. And
any businesses is going to look totally different because it's whatever you have to do as the owner in your business. And there's probably like a million other things like this stack of tax stuff on my desk right now. And like all the other Get done at some point, but
Shannon Rolph: It's one of the things though that I think is going to be really nice about having people working with me is that it, A, it's going to free up a little bit of my time so that I can do that higher
level thinking and planning. [00:40:00] And B, it's going to give me some accountability so
that I
need to do that higher level thinking and planning because they need to plan their lives too you know?
Laura Park Figueroa: Yes,
yes. Uhhuh.
Shannon Rolph: Yeah, so that's a good reminder too, to look back. I found the pandemic really beat planning out of me, because every time I made a plan, I couldn't follow
through on it,
Laura Park Figueroa: Yeah. Things got blown up.
Shannon Rolph: Yeah. it did. It was a really like, demoralizing
experience, , But obviously that's not the time that we're in, so
for me to circle back and yeah, maybe put a focus there.
Laura Park Figueroa: Yeah. I think
that's something too, as you said that that I want to wrap us up, but I just want to say this too, like so much to say about teams. Cause it's just a lot, right? A lot of times the planning with a team has to be done like way farther in advance than you think it needs to be done. And so helping the team see that.
You really are not trying to be annoying by asking [00:41:00] them in January to let you know their schedule, what they want to work next year in September.
Shannon Rolph: Yeah.
Laura Park Figueroa: You're not trying to be annoying. You just literally legitimately have to know so that you can map out all the services. Launch the registration,
get the families enrolled, make sure that you have staffing, all of that.
So
it's like you're working constantly like a year ahead of time.
And Nicole has really helped me with this. I'm a very like fly by the seat of my pants, like just like I said, do the next
thing and it'll all get done eventually, right? Not necessarily, I guess. maybe I'm taking back what I said a little bit, but they talk in this traction book about how like the owner of a business is often a visionary and they want to do all the things and they really need a partner or someone who's what they call an integrator who can like, take it all and like, be like, no pause.
We need to, Get systems around this or no, we shouldn't do that crazy idea. You have, because we are doing this right now. Remember, you know, like she's very nice about it. She's not mean how I just sounded, but, , but she's [00:42:00] really helped me because because she really, she really does like help me think through all the systems, everything that has to happen in the business and, , She has been really good at getting me to think through, like, we need to think a year ahead of time.
So like right now we are planning for registration, we've opened registration for fall, we've filled camp, and now she's already like, Do you think next year we could open registration in February for both camp and the fall at the same time? I mean, She's thinking in February next year,
right now,
you know, ,, So that's what you have to be doing as the owner and as the manager of the business.
I mean, She really, we don't even, she calls herself, you know, She calls herself my executive assistant, which is so
Shannon Rolph: I love
Laura Park Figueroa: you know, Like it's, she's like, that's what I do for you. And I'm like, I know, but I just feel weird. Like I don't feel like I'm an executive, you know, but she's also very much in my mind, like operations, like she's an [00:43:00] operations manager.
Doesn't even really do it justice. It's like operations and systems development manager. I don't know. I could think up some crazy good title for her if I had time, but , For Outdoor Kids OT, because she really is the one thinking like, okay, long term, how are we putting all these systems in place, having the reminders pop up when we need them inside of our project management software.
And, you know, just kind of making sure that the business is thinking ahead all the time. And employees often, they don't know that back end of the business. Your employees are never going to understand how much work it
Shannon Rolph: Oh, it's so much
work.
Laura Park Figueroa: To run the business. Right.
Shannon Rolph: I find with group based work.
Laura Park Figueroa: yeah. Oh yeah. We could do a whole other, I mean, it could be a whole other hour, right. to talk about the logistics around groups and how forming them and
staffing them and all of that. I mean, It is so much time and energy.
, And I would definitely have your team help you with that. So that is something in my practice that we do. We, We have [00:44:00] the therapist help with forming those groups.
They review applications and I've kind of helped them, you know know how to kind of think through it. And once you start to do the work, you can kind of know, you know, what to look for on the applications and they've given, they've given feedback on what we, what else we need to put on the applications and what other information they want to have, right,
to help them place kids appropriately in groups.
So your, your team can actually really help with offloading some of the stress of the managing the,
Logistics stuff too, because I know it's a lot. My business does mostly groups. We do very few, we do some individual, but it's mostly groups. So
Shannon Rolph: is like a cool way to offer therapy. I think it's so wonderful. And also administratively, it's a lot.
Laura Park Figueroa: yes, it is, it is a lot. And I think people don't realize the
the systems that you need to have around that. , Last thing I was going to say that I really think it's important, especially for people at your phase of business to, I think what's hard as a [00:45:00] leader in in your own practice, right. is that no matter. what You do, you are always going to be other than to the, to the people in your practice,
right?
Like you can be the most heart centered, the most loving, the most caring, and they still are going to see you as the owner or the boss. Right. And so I think it's really important for people. In our stage of business who are managing teams to have friends or colleagues or communities that we are part of where we are with other business owners who can understand how we feel
and, who can kind of normalize that process for us.
And it doesn't mean that you don't love your employees or that you don't have great relationships with them,
but it is just a different, it's a different thing. You need a community of people who you can go to and be like, Can you believe what this employee asked me for, you know, or whatever, you know, like, like they work three hours a week and they want a thousand dollars for continuing ed every year, you know, or [00:46:00] whatever, you know, like just things like that, that come up, that you can just then have a safe place to be like, tell me I'm not crazy.
And people can be like, you're not crazy. You know,
so,
I just really encourage you to find, you know, even if it's just one other person that you're friends with that you're like, Okay, let's, can I just vent for a minute? Cause it's really important to have that pressure valve release, I think
as a business
Shannon Rolph: Yeah. And it's a good reflection or a good reminder too, that very much. I want to support my team and their wellbeing. And also I need to support my wellbeing.
Laura Park Figueroa: Yes. a hundred percent.
OK download for me what your takeaways are from today. Like, Just give me, tell me, I'm really big on, I think. A lot of times we think we know something and if we don't, this is how my son learns in homeschooling. This is part of Charlotte Mason education for anyone who's interested.
Charlotte Mason is like the most amazing homeschooling methodology, like incredible. I am such a fan. It is influencing even how I see the Contigo approach. I feel like I need to put new modules in the program because of it. But one of the things that [00:47:00] is really big at it is narration. It's like telling back. And I'm really big about you. I don't think you really internalize or know something until you reflect on it and tell
it back. So we're going to do a little. Tell back here.
So what are your takeaways?
Shannon Rolph: Yeah, so my takeaways are that being a good leader means really clear and thoughtful communication. It means building a sense of connection amongst the team. So, you know, It doesn't have to all be me, but I can facilitate that connection amongst my team. , I'm taking away that I can value my team's feedback and still , make it clear that like, I will absolutely consider it and ultimately the decisions need to be mine. , And I'm taking away that like, I need to refocus on setting quarterly and annual goals to support the business growth, but to support the team too.
Laura Park Figueroa: Yeah. And get everyone kind of headed the same
direction. That's awesome.
Shannon Rolph: Yeah.
Laura Park Figueroa: I think those are [00:48:00] great takeaways. That was a very good narration, Shannon.
Shannon Rolph: Well, Thank you.
Laura Park Figueroa: A telling back of what we discussed.
Shannon Rolph: It's so funny. So I've done training and coaching because I do a lot of parent coaching in my business too. And that's one of the big things that they teach as well, that at the end,
it's Really?
important with your coaching clients to ask them to tell you their takeaways.
You should never be writing them down for them. Like, Yeah, that it's like this process of integrating the information in a meaningful way.
Laura Park Figueroa: Yes, see it like it works, right? I mean, , I have been blown away by the content that my 13 year old can read and tell back to me and I'm reading the book with him. And I don't know if I could tell back as well as he does because he's trained his brain to do it. And I just, really feel like that's how I, you know, force myself to really deeply learn and understand things is by teaching them to people.
It's why I do stuff on social media or like teach on the podcast because I feel like it helps me kind of integrate it
into my learning when I have to teach it because you have [00:49:00] to organize your
Shannon Rolph: Yeah. Totally.
Laura Park Figueroa: you know?
Shannon Rolph: totally.
Laura Park Figueroa: So, well, Thank you so much. This was so great. We went a little bit long, but I think it was like super helpful to people.
And I just know a lot of people are going to be helped by this because you were just so thoughtful in the things you brought and you're like your reflection on everything. So thanks for being here.
Shannon Rolph: Thank you so much for having me. It was so lovely.
Thanks for joining me today for Therapy in the Great Outdoors. If you want valuable advice as you start or grow your nature based pediatric practice, get my free ebook, The Nature Based Practice Roadmap. It is a guide to help you focus and avoid costly mistakes.
I share the four stages of nature based practice, what you need to focus on and common mistakes to avoid in each stage, plus a checklist of specific action steps for you to take at each stage in the process. Get it at therapyinthegreatoutdoors. [00:50:00] com. roadmap. So until next time, get outside, connect, reflect, and enjoy therapy in the great outdoors.
