81: A Nature-Based Pre-Writing Curriculum with Brigette Hill, OTR/L
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Laura Park Figueroa: [00:00:00] Welcome to Therapy in the Great Outdoors, the podcast where we explore the business and practice of nature based pediatric therapy of all kinds. If you're an outdoor loving pediatric practitioner in the fields of occupational, physical, or speech therapy, social work, or mental health, this podcast will help you start and grow a successful nature based practice or program.
I am the ever honest, always a hundred percent real. You'll hear it all on this podcast. Dr. Laura Park Figueroa. I'm a pediatric OT with over 20 years of experience and I run a thriving nature based practice with profitable locations in two different states and multi six figures in revenue. I also host the free online community at therapyinthegreatoutdoors.
com to help you pursue your nature based therapy dreams too. Are you ready to take action on those dreams? Let's jump in.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Hello, friends. In this [00:01:00] episode, occupational therapist Brigette Hill joins us to talk about her super innovative and creative curriculum that she designed for teaching pre writing shapes to pre kindergarten children using nature based activities.
You are going to love this and stay tuned till the end of the episode because she has a special discount code just for therapy in the great outdoors podcast listeners. So I'll give you that at the end. Let's dive in.
Welcome everybody! Brigette Hill is here today and I am going to do a little intro of her and then we are going to talk all about her amazing new curriculum that she has made for teaching pre k children pre writing shapes. And she has integrated nature in such a beautiful way into this curriculum, and I can't wait for you to talk about it, Brigette.
Let me do a little quick intro about you first. So Brigette is a nature based OT, [00:02:00] well, and a OT in general. But you are nature based and you love nature and you're integrating nature into your work. She has a business called Roly Poly Movement that is the hub for all of this digital content creation that she's been doing and then her business where she does in person OT services is called Hill OT.
Very cute that you can use your name in your business and it's a nature y kind of thing.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yes,
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: I love it. So great. So she focuses on working with, children in the kind of pre K, early childhood age, like six and under, and she homeschooled three children herself. So the products that she, designs, she has this curriculum, she has other ideas brewing, you'll hear about those, are for homeschool parents, special ed teachers, nature group leaders, therapist, and for anyone who really wants to work with children and integrate nature into teaching them these pre writing, shapes.
So let's talk about it, [00:03:00] Brigette. Welcome, first of all.
Thank
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: much, Laura.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: So let's talk about, why don't you tell everyone what this amazing curriculum is, and then we'll just kind of have an organic discussion about all the things. So
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: so what, if you're not an OT what you might not know is there's such a thing called pre writing shapes, that uh, progression of development that all kids go through, which I think is amazing, of learning how to draw. And these are the foundations for writing letters. And even though a lot of people start to think about with preschoolers, okay, they need to learn their letters within preschool age and beginning kindergarten, what they, we really need to make sure is they have the skills to make their pre writing shapes. So a vertical line and then a horizontal line, and then a circle and so on with these shapes. And most activities working on pre writing shapes are not very interesting, especially if a kid [00:04:00] has delay in these things, they're not interested in working on them. And so I've been having so much fun coming up with nature based activities and movement based activities work on them. And the kids have gotten really excited and into it. And that has been so much fun. The first thing I had tried was using a feather and having real feathers for kids to touch. And they were so excited to touch a real feather. And we looked at how there is diagonal lines in the feather, and then they had their own shape of a large piece of paper sized shape of one feather with a line down the middle, and they drew diagonal lines from the middle of the feather out, and that was so much more exciting than when I've worked with kids trying to write, draw diagonal lines and been like, let's make another slide
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: yeah. All right.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: And then the next thing I tried [00:05:00] was showing the kids a tree stump and we looked and saw the tree rings on a tree stump and the kids didn't know what a tree rings were. Even though on the, they have a nature playground and they played on around these stumps all the time. They didn't know what about the circles on the tree.
And so it was so fun to introduce them to that concept and they, they got so excited. And so we, we traced a circle around the tree ring and then we, I gave them a shape, like a organic shape of a circle. And we start with a small circle in the middle and then make another circle, another circle around it. And they got to practice circles over and over and over again.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yes, to make your little tree stump. That's perfect.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: And then through all this, I and also talking with Laura, because I'm part of the community that Laura has, and I've been a part of some of the,
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yeah,
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: phone calls, and some of those phone calls helped me develop some of these ideas. And so I [00:06:00] realized, you know, I was sometimes doing movement and sometimes not, and really that all of these activities can have movement. So in my e book, the progression for every lesson is move, touch, draw. So in every lesson, there's a printable of whatever shape you're working on, so you can show the kids the shape. And then there's instructions on how they can move their body in that shape.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: mhm
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: for, for six of the lessons, there's a song to go with it. All the songs are there's recordings of all the songs that are included with so the curriculum has an ebook and it has five recordings of songs. One of the songs is used twice. so for example, for the tree ring lesson. The move part is not only making a circle in the sky with your finger, but there's a song, the tree ring song, is about how do you know how old a tree is. And in
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: oh, it's so cute.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: you're led to make a circle, and then in the song, okay, How many, let's make a four year [00:07:00] old tree, and so you make circles on top of circles in the air. So that's the move portion. And then the touch portion is you can either look at a tree stump, if you don't have one at your school, even if you're an indoor classroom, you can get a tree cookie from the craft store. And so that's an easy way to bring nature into your classroom. And the kids. trace their fingers around the circles and then draw there's a printout for each of these that will look like a, tree cookie that they start with a small circle in the middle and then make bigger circles around and around it. And this, each, Lesson is very adaptable for kids that might have fine motor difficulty, might have special ed needs. With the circle one, for example, the teacher could start the first circle and it's so much easier for the kid to do the next
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yeah,
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: it. And you can even alternate between the teacher and the child
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: yeah,
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: circles.
So all of, and so the [00:08:00] curriculum has ideas like this all throughout it of how you can adapt it for kids that are having more difficulties with these things, but they're also regular education. Kids can
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: yeah,
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: in these activities. They're easy for it to be done in homeschool setting. I did just preschool homeschool because that's my favorite age.
I just wanted to have that time with my kids because I
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: yeah,
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: with preschoolers. And then it works, I think it could be great for a nature play group or at a nature center. I do it with I do a nature play group in my backyard with kids and I do these activities with them also. So, it can be used with a lot of different people.
Mm
well that's what I had said
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: to
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: you
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: because when you shared the, like, the pre launched version, which is now the launched version, but, With me, I know I came back to you and I was like, this is so much more than an ebook. This is a full curriculum because I noticed you even have, you have all the activities, you have the printables, you have the songs that go with it, the movement activities, all of this.[00:09:00]
And you also even had, I saw in there, a list of different books you could read. With each lesson or whatever, like, you know, a book about tree rings or something for the tree ring activity, which is so great to like kind of extend the learning. And I, I think I was so impressed with, with the curriculum in general, because I felt like as a nature based practice owner, it started my wheels turning about, wow, I could hire.
an OT assistant or a nature based educator or have a capstone student. I mean, there's so many ways that you could implement this curriculum. I mean, you can't bill for therapy for it, right? Like if you're not using it in the context of with a skilled therapist and goals being worked on and stuff, but even for nature based practices to be able to run enrichment programming, it's such a valuable resource for people because there's how many weeks would it, it's like eight weeks, 10 weeks, how long is it?
13 lessons. So it's a whole semester, essentially. You could run [00:10:00] a semester long program for preschoolers in your business as a, as a nature enrichment program. And it's basically written out for you what to do. I think that's one of the things that is so challenging in nature based work is the, finding of all of the activities and planning and getting the supplies together and all of that.
And you've done so much of that work for people. The other cool thing I just want to say in kudos to you is you tried out all of these activities. So I know I did the same for my book. Like I didn't put anything in my book that was a meh meh, you know,
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yes.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: it didn't work, it didn't go in the book, you know?
So only the things that kids really enjoyed went in there. And so you've kind of pre You vetted these ideas with real children who have given the stamp of child approval. And so that's another, another great benefit to it. So, let's, let's talk a little bit about well, I don't know if you [00:11:00] want to go here, but I want to, I want to talk with you a little bit about like, how, how has your thinking kind of emerged in.
Launching a product. And I want people who are listening to this, even if you're not going to launch a product, think about this as launching a new service or launching something new in your business. How has your thinking changed as we've kind of talked inside of the Hive, my business coaching program, as well as like just you and I talking about pricing things based on the value people received.
I just want to hear your thoughts on this.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: I just still don't know. That's the honest answer is And still until I make sales and as Laura and I are talking I'm like just posting it online just now so until I have sales. I just have all those questions about pricing especially when I've done so much work, I am looking forward [00:12:00] to the payoff, even though I know for a digital product, I'm trying to keep my eyes on the long term,
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yes.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: it's, this is a long term investment, and that as a digital product, I've done a lot of work on the developing of the product, and now it is out how to find the audience that can use it, because I've designed it for a lot of different people. You know, I have other digital products in mind, and I'm hoping as I start selling one, then I will be more comfortable with the pricing for more. But to get over that first hurdle, the pricing is still really difficult, figuring
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yeah. I re I realized I said good. When you said, I don't know, it's not, I don't, I want to, I don't want to say that it's good that you don't know. I was just saying good, like appreciating your honesty.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Okay.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: I just so appreciate that about you, that you're just being honest. And I think more, the more that we can like in public forums admit that we don't know.
I think the, the better that is [00:13:00] for. Everyone listening even to just be like, yeah, business is messy. Everything you do in business is messy. I said that in, well, this week's podcast, which will be, you know, like five weeks ago by the time, by the time this goes live, but Yeah.
So let's talk about the songs because you are in the very lucky position of having a husband who is an elementary school music teacher. And so talk, talk to me about like how you came up with the idea to do this, because I remember being on that free Tigo community call with you when you talked about trying out the feather activity, which was like, I don't know, a year ago now, maybe?
And just thought, Oh, how cool. She's like integrating really simple nature things. And, and then the next thing, you know, you're writing this whole curriculum. And then a couple of weeks ago, you're like, and my husband and I wrote five songs. I'm like, what Oh my gosh, where does the, where does the creativity end?
So
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yeah.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: about that.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: My husband decided instead of [00:14:00] teaching summer school that he would be a support to me this summer as I was working on this curriculum. And so that blossomed into us writing songs together and then him recording them and so I had come up with this idea of move, touch, draw. And I was realizing for some of the movements That it needed a little bit more to engage the kids because I was trying these movements just to like draw the shape in the air with the kids and they weren't that interested.
They're like, you know which is, that's what I love about trying things out with the kids. I all of these activities I did with kids at an after school enrichment program at a preschool where I, where the director of the preschool said, do whatever OT stuff you want to do. So that's, that's where I
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: So great.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: develop these things.
And so, I also did a continuing education course called Kogan Steps by a OT in New York who's [00:15:00] also has been a professional dancer and she a whole continuing education of how you can use dance in OT. So I think that,
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: cool!
Oh
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Of those
ideas came together. None of these are dances, but going through her program, I think, helped me develop some of these movement songs.
And I'm also huge on movement songs, because, they're so much fun, if you get a good one, and you can get the kids to do some great movement at the
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: yeah.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: and you're having all the benefits of music. So I would give my husband ideas and then he would also from his experience with kids would go all they want to do that or you know And and then he we would just work off of each other and the interesting thing is he was thinking about the song musically and developmentally what skills kids would be at.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yeah.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: was thinking motor wise, and so it was interesting to see where we came together. I think there's so much more potential for more movement songs that [00:16:00] have movements that we know would benefit kids. And so I look forward to, in the future, writing more with my husband,
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yeah. That's so fun.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yeah. Yes.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: I've mentioned it in my email newsletter before, but I don't know if I've ever said it on a podcast. Do you know of Kira Wiley? She's a, she's a yoga teacher who, and musician who's built an entire career around yoga. Writing children's yoga music, essentially. And I used to use it a lot in the kindergarten and early childhood classrooms I was in, in the public schools, and I would run like a, you know, I'd have three or four kids on OT in the classroom,
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yeah.
So I
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: would spend a half hour with the whole class doing a movement experience because the kids were so much more engaged when their whole class is doing something versus when I'm sitting down with them or taking them to a room by themselves to work with the OT, you know, and just that whole idea of like inclusion and pushing into classrooms rather than pulling out of classrooms as therapists.
I think your curriculum would be very [00:17:00] doable for a therapist too to take into a public or private school setting and use it as part of their Kind of intervention inside the classroom with kids. It just makes it so much more engaged. So yeah, who knows in 10 years, you and your husband could be like Grammy award winning artists.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: There's, there's a very good reason I am not on any of the recordings. I love music,
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: You're like, I love music when I'm not singing. Yeah. That's so funny because I think I assumed when you said that we wrote songs, I was like, Oh, I didn't know you sang, but I didn't even think of you not being the one singing. It could be your husband singing and you just giving input. So,
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: I brought ideas and definitely the movements to it. And I wanted the singable as possible. One thing, if you
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: yeah.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: a lot of new children's music is not singable. And I think that's a cultural thing. Popular music isn't singable for the average person, but there is something even more [00:18:00] powerful in a singable song that a kid could get stuck in their head and they're just playing and singing it to themselves and doing the movements themselves.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yeah,
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: and so I, I think singable music is really important too. So almost all the songs are, sing-able And I have three kids and we've all been having these songs stuck in our head and singing them
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: yeah,
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: So, yeah.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: When you say singable, do you mean like in a range that makes it, like it's not a complex, hard to sing kind of thing and it's in like a vocal range that works for kids? Is that something else you thought about?
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: like the melody isn't too complex. So that you could sing along to it. Yes, the vocal range something that I've learned from my husband is male music teachers, when he's actually singing with kids, he sings in a falsetto voice to be in the range for kids. And we had a whole debate about whether should sing falsetto on the songs. And we [00:19:00] decided he, was not going to sing falsetto on the song,
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Because it's really, it sounds really weird, right?
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: sounds weird.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: yeah,
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: And so our, our deciding moment was that Rafi doesn't sing falsetto, but kids still can sing along with Rafi. So that's, that was our deciding
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: I love it. I love it. If you don't know who Raffi is, he's like a big kids musician, like probably one of the most famous, right? I don't know. It's things like classic songs and like also his own, but
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: sings his own that have become classic songs. Like I, when I
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: yeah.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: some of the songs were his, I was like, Oh, I thought that's just been around forever.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Right. Like for millennia that's been sung. Oh no, that's actually his song. Okay.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Okay. Well,
Okay
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: so
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: what
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: What
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: advice would you give to people
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: who maybe are listening to this and they have an idea for something that they want to create? Because I don't [00:20:00] talk much about digital or online business on this podcast because it's intended to be for nature based therapy practice owners.
But I am all for having multiple revenue sources in your business. And so I think it is a really smart idea for people who are running nature based businesses. If they have ideas like this to implement on them, but why don't you tell everybody what some of the challenges have been, like, what advice would you give to people at this stage in your early, early development of your business?
So first of all
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: anything that you are like I wish there was this, and there's not that, and you find yourself making it keep track of those things because there might be other people that want that thing. When I, when I would having discouraging moments, like who knows if anyone's going to buy this or not, I [00:21:00] would say to myself, well, at least I'm going to use it because I've gotten, I was already doing these things, but now they're at a more, higher quality for me to use with my own kids that I see. So, anything you want, that would, that's the starting point. Anything that you develop that you think could be better, especially when there's nothing out there. Those are really, sometimes we tweak things here and there, but when you find that you see like nothing out there and you're developing it I think that's something to pay attention to and keep track of those ideas. And then also keep track of when you have pockets of time open to explore. Something like if you're busy working full time and also trying to make something digital content It might not be the right time in your life i'm i'm just starting my business And I was just working like very, very low hours part time before.
So I had the time to, to develop this digital [00:22:00] content. So I think looking to see what your margin is, and if you don't have that margin right now those ideas. But I think , it also can be things if your caseload is low, that might be a time to work on digital products that you have ideas for when, with those sort of lulls and then also thinking about who could benefit from these ideas, whether it would just be other therapists. Is it something families could benefit that the type of families you're already seeing Is this a product for them? Or is this, are these ideas for other people for me, these are ideas for other teachers, for homeschool parents, for therapists. So what Laura's community helped me realize is since it's not for the kids that I'm doing therapy with, not for their parents per say, that a whole nother group to market to.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yeah.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: a whole nother thing to think about too. [00:23:00] Yeah.
I'm so glad you said that
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: I was like
in my brain I was like I
can't forget to mention that you have to think about it being actually a separate business if you're marketing to a different ideal customer. And it can be very confusing. I had this happen with my practice because initially with my nature based practice, I was marketing like the Contigo course, which was for therapists, you know, it wasn't for the parents that were in my practice.
And so thinking about if you are going to create products, like the simplest way to do it is to create something that your parent families will want, and then you market it to your email list and on your social media platform that you may already have for your, for your nature based therapy practice.
But if you are going to create something that is for a wider audience of people, I would highly recommend people that you just go ahead and make it a separate business from the very start. I know it feels super overwhelming, [00:24:00] but. it will save you so much time in the end having to like peace out things.
I'm still, still to this day, like, Oh, wait, why is that not in my therapy and the great outdoors? Oh, it's probably under the outdoor kids OT email account. And I need to dig into the Google docs there to find this document, you know? So it's just so much easier and cleaner if you kind of have a, yeah. A clear like separation especially for you.
I think one of the things we talked about, I remember in the hive was you, I was asking you questions about, is this what you're going to produce? And this is it. Or are you planning to build this into an actual, like, we have lots of different things that we offer. And you were like, Oh yeah, I've already have this idea for this thing.
And this thing, and you kind of rattled off a few of them. And I was like, Oh, then for sure. Don't make it part of your practice, like make it a separate
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Mm hmm.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: So, and you called it Roly Poly movement, which is the cutest name I've ever heard. It's so cute. It's the best. It describes what [00:25:00] you do, but also has a little nature element in it.
It's so cute. So
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Thank you. Mm
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Thanks for being honest here and like sharing the startup of this. Can we talk to people about, cause I'm sure people listening are like, they've been waiting with bated breath. Where can I find this? So, tell people where they can find it right now
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: So I, I'm at rolypolymovement.com and there's one L in roly and one L in poly is something I've learned with doing all of this.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: oh
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: and,
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: that's how I would spell it too, but I guess you're right. There might be errors of people spelling R O L L Y instead of R O L Y. I think of a roly poly as R O L Y P O L Y. That's what I think of it.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yes. Okay.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Okay.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: You win with the spelling there.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: That's correct? Okay, good.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: And so look for roly poly movement and the curriculum is called tree rings and other things. And then the tagline is 13 [00:26:00] hands on lessons to teach pre writing shapes.
laura-park-figueroa_1_07-30-2024_144452: Yay! I love it. Y'all go out and buy this right now because I'm trying to convince Brigette that she's selling it at way too low a price because I was like, people would pay like, 10 times more than this for what you're charging. So, so really it is, and I want to encourage you, Brigette, I want you to hear. I know I said this offline, but I'm going to say it recorded where everyone can hear it.
The work that you have put into this is just magnificent. And it is, it is such a unique and fun way for people to do this work on these really important skills with young kids. So I am grateful to you for putting it out there in the world. And I think you should be super excited for this to be out there and I know you're going to get great feedback on it.
So thanks for being here too.
brigette-hill_1_07-30-2024_144452: Thank you for all your support, Laura. .
Laura Park Figueroa: So if you want to check out Brigette's curriculum, go to rolypolymovement.com. com and you can use the discount [00:27:00] code GREAT20 in order to get 20 percent off of your purchase there. G R E A T, like therapy in the great outdoors, 20, to get 20 percent off. Thanks for listening today and we'll see you next week.
Bye!
Wait a second. Don't go yet. Do you want 120 ways that you can take your pediatric therapy work outdoors into nature? I wrote the free, big, huge list of nature based therapy activities just for you. The Big Huge List will give you quick ideas for nature based sessions. In the Big Huge List, there are activities for gross motor, fine motor, visual perceptual, executive function, balance, group collaboration, and team building, social, emotional, and self regulation skills, as well as speech and language, and a whole section just for swing activities.
So go on and get your free Big Huge List so you can get started taking kids outdoors or have some new ideas if you've been doing this a while. You [00:28:00] can download your free copy at therapyinthegreatoutdoors. com slash list. So until next time, get outside, connect, reflect, and enjoy therapy in the great outdoors.
