Ep 73 - My Published Research on Nature-Based Pediatric Occupational Therapy - Part 1 (Abstract, Introduction, Methods, + partial Results)
[00:00:00] Welcome to Therapy in the Great Outdoors, the podcast where we explore the business and practice of nature based pediatric therapy of all kinds. If you're an outdoor loving pediatric practitioner in the fields of occupational, physical, or speech therapy, social work, or mental health, this podcast will help you start and grow a successful nature based practice or program.
I am the ever honest, always a hundred percent real. You'll hear it all on this podcast. Dr. Laura Park Figueroa. I'm a pediatric OT with over 20 years of experience and I run a thriving nature based practice with profitable locations in two different states and multi six figures in revenue. I also host the free online community at therapyinthegreatoutdoors.
com to help you pursue your nature based therapy dreams too. Are you ready to take action on those dreams? Let's jump [00:01:00] in.
Hi, everyone. Welcome to therapy in the great outdoors. This episode will be kind of like an audio book because my research article on portions of my dissertation research is now published it is finally published. You can get a copy by going to therapyinthegreatoutdoors.com/model, because I developed a model in my research and get your free copy there.
So I did not opt to pay the $3,300 that they charge for your article to be published open access, which means anyone can read it on the Journal's website. So it is behind a paywall where you would normally have to pay $65 to access it unless you are a student and you have access to a university library.
You can access it there for free because universities usually [00:02:00] pay those fees for people. And then you can access it if you are a student, but if you are not a student and you want to save $65 and still read this article, you can get a copy. Again, the website is therapyinthegreatoutdoors.com/model. And. I am allowed to give away the manuscript version.
So it will be a PDF of my manuscript that I sent to them and its final format. You will get everything that is in the article, including. The full color picture of the model itself, as well as all the tables and figures and the reference list and all of that. But it will just be an, a manuscript format, meaning like a PDF of a word or Google doc document.
So it'll look a little different than it is online, but. You can have a copy of that way. And it has all the same content. It's just not formatted pretty like the journal article is when you go to the actual DOI. Okay. So. It occurred to me that some [00:03:00] people might actually enjoy the same way. Some people like to read visually, but other people like to listen, auditorially. Is that a word?
Listen. Auditorially I don't know how to say that. Anyway. It occurred to me that some people might want to listen to the article while you are on the go. So what I'm going to do for these next two episodes of the podcast is to. Read the article in its. Published form. And I will possibly give a little bit of,
Commentary along the way. But I am planning to read the article a couple of caveats before we begin. For this episode, I will be reading the introduction and the first part of the results. And for next week's episode, I will be talking about the phases in the nature-based intervention process.
I kind of feel like going into telling you what the research was about right now, but I'm not going to [00:04:00] do that. I am going to stick to reading the article because I don't want this episode to get too long. All right. The last caveat before I start reading, is there are a lot of references in this articles.
So in order to make. The flow of reading it to you. Be more. Comfortable to listen to. I am not going to be reading every single citation like centers for disease control and prevention 2018. So good and Gaston 2016. So if you want all the references, I assume that you will get the free copy of the article and look at them yourself and look at the reference list.
I'm just going to read the article and not even say when they're citations and things like that. Okay. I think that's it. The title of the article is mechanisms of change and nature-based pediatric occupational therapy, the ecology of change and outdoor therapy model. It was [00:05:00] published in occupational therapy and healthcare. On June 22nd, 2024. I am the first author, Laura Park Figueroa, and my committee members, Gail Pasky, Catherine Rose and Norlene Pickens were the co-authors on this study because they provided me. Feedback during my dissertation. They are all members of faculty at Texas women's university.
And I published. with my affiliation, being my business therapy and the great outdoors LLC, because I am not affiliated with a university at this point because I've graduated. Yay. Okay. The abstract. The purpose of this qualitative constructivist grounded theory study was to develop a model to explain potential mechanisms of change in the nature-based pediatric occupational therapy process.
Based on analysis of the perspectives of occupational therapy practitioners currently engaging in nature-based practice with children. Using 27 [00:06:00] photos and interview data from 22 participants. The ecology of change and outdoor therapy. Abbreviated ecotherapy E C O is all in capitals and , it's a acronym for our ecology of change and outdoor therapy. So the acronym is ecotherapy model was developed. The model suggests mechanisms of change in nature-based pediatric OT.
I'm going to, I realize now I need to say this to you. I'm going to abbreviate OT because occupational therapy is a mouthful. Anytime it says occupational therapy. I'm going to say OT instead. Nature-based pediatric OT may involve six iterative phases. Longing for freedom, embarking on adventure, dancing with nature, claiming self agency. Braving real life challenges and growing adaptive capacity. The practitioner and child experiencing these phases throughout the nature-based OT process may lead to improved participation and performance in the child's daily life.
[00:07:00] Introduction. The vital childhood occupation of outdoor play in nature is on the decline and industrialized societies around the world. Children have less contact with nature than previous generations due to ubiquitous technology use rising rates of sedentary indoor play. Urbanization of once rural areas. And parental concerns about safety. These cultural and contextual changes have caused a radical shift to more indoor lifestyles characterized by a lack of connection to nature. After thousands of years of history in which humans lived in close relationship with nature for their survival as a species. Evidence suggests children are growing up, more disconnected from nature than ever before. This rupture and the child nature relationship during early development may have profound consequences for children's health and wellbeing throughout life.
Pediatric OT practitioners are taking action in response to these trends by [00:08:00] exploring the potential of the great outdoors as a unique therapeutic milieu for fostering children's occupational participation. Pediatric OT services typically take place in indoor settings, such as clinics, homes, or schools where practitioners utilize human made supplies and the built environment to facilitate the therapy session. And contrast nature-based services.
Take place outdoors and bring children into contact with elements of nature. For example, trees, plants, animals, land. As a central part of the therapeutic process. Though, not always feasible due to the unique needs of each child. Nature-based OT is supported by a growing body of research, suggesting nature promotes many client factors and performance skills outlined in the occupational therapy practice framework, domain and process fourth edition. Interacting with nature, stimulates children's cognition, improves attention, foster social, emotional wellbeing, stimulates creative and social play builds.
[00:09:00] Resilience improves academic performance increases physical activity. And is associated with reduced emotional and behavioral challenges in children. There are citations for all of those. Exposure to nature in childhood may lead to better mental health and adulthood.
Well research points to nature's benefits for children's health.
Only a small portion of existing literature explores nature-based therapy for children with disabilities. For example, mental health professionals advocate for the efficacy of nature-based therapy services in supporting psychological wellbeing of children and families. And public health professionals contend that a return to nature-based therapy solutions of the past may be beneficial for modern day children. In alignment with these professions, OT literature on nature-based pediatric practice is also emerging.
A recent book suggests integrating nature into pediatric OT may offer unique benefits for children who have sensory integration challenges. That one, I feel like [00:10:00] most of you will want to know what that is. So I'll say it here is Raynoso at all 2022. R E I N O S O. And outdoor OT camp for children with sensory processing challenges was found to be effective in improving children's occupational performance with results remaining stable at three months after the camp experience, that one was Stackhouse at all 2020.
Connection and transformation in the great outdoors. Contigo is a nature-based approach developed in the field of OT to help pediatric practitioners practice outdoors in alignment with existing theories and evidence from psychology, outdoor education and allied health professions. That is my citation.
Figaroa 2020. However Contigo is not a nature-based theory, but rather a framework to inform best practice in nature-based therapy. Theory attempts to explain a process and understand relationships between different elements and a process scholars from both within and outside of OT, admit [00:11:00] theories are lacking about nature-based therapy and recommend explanatory theories should be developed to guide nature-based therapy, Arctic interventions, and research. There are lots of citations after that one. Theory development is needed because nature-based practice is fundamentally different than other practice settings.
As working outdoors requires practitioners and clients to contend with unique variables. A, unifying model or theory incorporating nature does not yet exist to explain the growing practice of nature-based pediatric OT. To address this gap in practice and the literature. The purpose of this study was to develop a theoretical model to explain potential mechanisms of change in the nature-based pediatric OT process for young children ages zero to 12 years with disabilities.
This age, subset of the broader pediatric population was chosen in order to focus the research and resulting models specifically on nature-based intervention for children versus adolescents. The research question was [00:12:00] what model describes how occupational therapy practitioners explain the nature based occupational therapy, intervention process for children ages zero to 12 years who have disabilities. Okay.
So that's the end of the introduction. And now we are moving into materials and methods. Design. This study utilized constructivist grounded theory methodology to analyze and interpret participants experiences in a nature-based therapy setting. The principal investigator P I. Co-constructed and explanatory, theoretical model with the participants. And explanatory theoretical model is an interpretive analysis of the data collected and offers new insight by illuminating relationships among abstract concepts that were previously implicit or unrecognized in the process being studied. The goal is to explain mechanisms at work in a process rather than just describe observable steps of the [00:13:00] process.
Positionality of the primary investigator. The PI is a nature-based pediatric OT practice owner, the author of the Contigo approach and has trained over 130. That should have been 140 actually. I didn't correct that before we went to publication. Pediatric practitioners in Contigo prior to this study. She completed this study for her doctoral dissertation research and was familiar with the literature.
Related to nature-based pediatric therapy. To conduct this study and alignment with constructivist grounded theory methodology that P I attempted to continually bracket her own opinions. Question her preconceived ideas and assumptions and approach the data with a beginner's mind throughout data collection and analysis. I am going to make a brief commentary here.
So if you're not familiar with this term, bracketing, it is where you. Seek to. Cognitively and consciously recognize the biases that you [00:14:00] have and put them in. Brackets essentially, and set them aside. So that term is used in grounded theory methodology. And as a term in qualitative research to bracket your opinions and, and set them aside in order to look at the. The research data with a clear. Brain as much as you can. Okay.
The next section is titled participants. The institutional review board at Texas women's university approved the study prior to recruitment. Purposive sampling was used within online networks to recruit OT practitioners who spoke English. Held the legally required credentials to practice in their location had technology to access zoom, video conferencing. And had any experience providing nature-based pediatric OT. For this study, nature-based pediatric OT was defined as the provision of OT services to children with disabilities ages zero to 12 [00:15:00] years. That took place outdoors and brought children into contact with elements of nature, such as trees, plants, animals, and land as a central part of the therapeutic process. Participants completed a Google form to screen for inclusion and exclusion criteria and gave informed consent prior to participation. 22 occupational therapists from three countries participated in this study. 19 in the United States, one in Australia and two in Canada with assigned pseudonyms for the purposes of writing this article, everyone had pseudonyms. Table one illustrates the participant's demographics, including years of experience in occupational therapy, years of experience in nature-based practice and types of outdoor practice settings. So, since this is on audio, I am going to comment a little bit on what table one shows about their participants. I'm not going to give you all the numbers because who would remember those.
But basically what was really interesting was we [00:16:00] had mostly experienced therapists, very few therapists at in fact, no one had been licensed less than two to three years. So everyone had more than two to three years experience as an OT. Most people had six to 30 years of experience. So we had a very experienced group of participants who were experienced occupational therapist, and I didn't have any assistance volunteer to participate in this study, which was interesting to me because I did not. Limit it just to OTs, but I only had OTs. Volunteer to participate.
So, they were all therapists, not assistance, but they were very experienced. When we look at the years of experience for the participants in nature-based practice in particular, we have far more people who had. Three or less years of experience and only five of the participants had more than four to five years of experience. [00:17:00] So 17 of their participants had three or less years of experience in nature-based practice.
So that is something that I say in the limitations, which you'll hear later that because nature-based practice seems to be. A growing practice area right now. We had participants in the study who did not have a ton of experience doing nature-based work. And so that is something to think about.
Most of the participants were self-employed in their own private practice.
Uh, There were 17 participants out of 22 who had their own private practice doing nature-based work. A few were employees, a few worked in schools, a few worked in therapeutic programs or camps or hippotherapy or aquatic therapy. So there were kind of a smattering of, of people in each of those areas. But the majority were self-employed in their own private practice doing nature-based work. Okay.
So that's the summary of table one. My comments on the participants. Again, you can [00:18:00] see that table. If you get your copy of the article.
The next section is iterative data collection analysis and trustworthiness. Three primary sources of data collection where used intensive interviews, visual images, and written memos. Data collection and analysis occurred simultaneously. As unstructured interviews elicit the richest forms of data. The PI conducted all interviews with the same initial question, which was. Tell me about your experience as a nature based occupational therapy practitioner.
I want to hear your story in your own words. After you're done. If I have questions or need clarification, I'll ask you. But for now just talk freely about your nature based work. The interviewee was allowed to reply without interruption.
Follow up questions were composed in a non-confrontational manner to avoid leading the interviewee. Interview's proceeded as a natural conversation with follow-up questions, such as tell me about how your [00:19:00] nature-based OT services are provided. Tell me about the children you work with outdoors in nature. Tell me about how nature influences OT for children. How would you describe the role nature plays in your therapy sessions? How do you feel nature-based OT compares to indoor OT services in other settings?
Visual images served as a secondary data source to stimulate deeper conversation during interviews and to inform ongoing coding and analysis.
Each participant was invited to submit one or more of their favorite photos from their nature-based work with children, with permission from caregivers. 10 participants chose to share images depicting their nature based work with a total of 27 images submitted. Photos were displayed on screen during zoom interviews so that the participants verbal reflections on photos were embedded within the interview transcript for coding. In three interviews.
Photos were not discussed due to time limitations, but were reviewed to inform coding. [00:20:00] After coding was completed, the images were compared to the generated theory to check for credibility. So I do want to make a comment here about this. So this was really hard to explain. Honestly, I struggled to write this section because it was hard to explain. When you do grounded theory research, it, it increases the rigor of the research.
If you use multiple data sources. And so the interviews were the primary data source, and then I use the visual images to kind of look for other themes or to look to see if the things I was seeing in the interviews were also depicted in these photos , were the things that I was finding in the data. The same in the photos or were there things that were different? The photos were not, I did not like code them.
I didn't look at the photo and then like write different things. Now, if you don't know about coding, it basically means commenting on what is being said inside of an interview or commenting on what you see or. Feelings you have, when you look at a photo there's loads of different ways to do it, but [00:21:00] coding just means that you are. Writing down a short phrase to describe what you're seeing and the data and what you're seeing in the well, what you're seeing in the data, if you have photos, interview data, whatever it is. I may comment again about coding and a little bit.
Interviews lasted an average of 60 minutes with a range of 30 to 120 minutes, a total of 23 and a half hours of audio files were auto transcribed using Descript which is a auto transcription software. After which they were reviewed and edited for accuracy. Transcripts were coded in NVivo, which is a platform used for qualitative data. Collection and analysis. Following the three stages of constructivist grounded theory, coding line-by-line coding focused coding and theoretical coding. Line-by-line coding occurred immediately after each interview for ongoing constant comparative analysis of data.
That means I just was constantly. I was [00:22:00] looking at one interview and looking at another one. It's a very messy process. It doesn't fit well for my black and white, like to do things, linearly personality. It was very challenging for me. I don't know why I chose this kind of research. Well, I do know why it chose it.
I chose it because it's what's needed in the profession, but also. I didn't realize how hard it would be for my personality to do this kind of research. So line-by-line coding is where you go through and just comment literally on what you're reading in each line. So for example, if someone said something like. I feel like the outdoors just invites children to be more adventurous than I would make a comment. Nature encouraging adventure. Play or risky play or something like that.
So it was just, it was just kind of me commenting on what the data was showing what people were saying.
Okay, let's get back to reading. To minimize bias to peer coders with qualitative research experience independently.
Coded seven of the anonymized transcripts. Peer codes were then used to check the PIs [00:23:00] codes. As interviews proceeded, theoretical sampling was conducted by asking participants questions to explore codes emerging in the data from previous interviews, with the goal of elaborating and refining, preliminary categories and ideas to inform theory development. The PI also participated in a peer debriefing group with three research colleagues to check emerging codes during analysis and development of the model.
The PI capped, reflective memos and a research journal throughout data collection and analysis immediately after each interview, key topics were documented along with ideas, questions, and changes to consider in future interviews. Memos also serve to check personal biases and explore relationships in the data. What about 15 interviews had been completed?
The PI use diagramming and flow charts to map possible relationships between emerging codes. And checked concepts with participants and follow up interviews to finalize the names of the different phases and the actors in the [00:24:00] model.
Data collection continued until theoretical saturation was reached when no new concepts were emerging from the interviews, photos or memos. Theoretical saturation was also confirmed via member checking by emailing every participant, a copy of their anonymized interview transcript. Along with a screen recorded presentation, explaining preliminary ideas and the developing model in order to solicit feedback on its relevance and completeness. 11 participants gave feedback three participated in followup interviews. And eight gave written feedback via email. Some participants suggested changes to language or gave specific answers in response to the PIs questions resulting in changes to the layout of the final model to more accurately represent the participants experiences. After the outfits, the final model was shared with two expert nature-based occupational therapy practitioners to confirm for relevance.
So. This is. A load of, terms and terminology that [00:25:00] are specific to grounded theory. But basically what I did was. Look at this data for months on end, in order to come up with relationships between different themes that I was seeing in the data to come up with some explanation for how is. Nature-based OT actually bringing about change in children.
What's the mechanism of change as the title of the article is.
Okay. So now we are to the results section. I am going to read only the first part of the results. This is a very long article I actually had to, it was about twice as long when I first submitted it. I had to. Cut out a lot and there is probably. I don't know. At least one, if not two or three more articles I could write from the dissertation research that I did, but this is the. The one article that is presenting the model that I developed.
So the first. Section of the results. I talk about the actors in the process. So you will hear who [00:26:00] those are in a moment. And then, as I said before, next week, I will talk about the different phases in the nature based OT process.
The results, the section. That we all like to read and research articles.
The outcome of this study was the ecology of change and outdoor therapy, parenthesis eco therapy model. A preliminary explanation of the roles of essential actors. That's in quotes. They wanted me to put that in quotes. And different phases within the nature-based pediatric OT process.
The PI developed the unique names given to the actors and different phases as an interpretive explanation of the underlying meaning of the participant's lived experiences to aluminate influential aspects of the nature-based. OT process and make explicit what was previously implicit in the data. Now y'all, I'm going to be real with you here. I don't know that this model is making anything [00:27:00] implicit, that if you do nature based OT, or nature-based therapy in general, if you're a speech therapist, a mental health counselor. A, PT, listening to this, like. I would love to hear if this model actually. Made anything clear to you that wasn't clear before?
Because I think. A lot of what came up in this model. Felt like. Things that if you do nature based work, , you naturally know and you feel this in your gut. So , I had a really hard time. Trying to.
Make the process clear one, because it's really messy, but also too, because it just seems so obvious to all the people in the study.
Like the things that I was hearing from them, I kept hearing the same things over and over. , and you'll see in the model, but I would love to know if there were any. Kind of aha moments for you when you hear these results. Because I feel, as I mentioned on previous episodes, very nervous to have this out there in the world [00:28:00] and. I want to hear from people after you read it.
I want to hear from you. What your thoughts are.
Okay, we are going to talk about the actors now. So the title of this section is actors. Nature-based pediatric OT intervention involves complex interactions of four different actors. Nature. The occupational therapy practitioner. The child and the caregivers.
The word actors was purposefully chosen to draw attention to the main actions and contributions of different people and nature within the nature-based therapy process, based on the data collected.
So the first one is nature as the continual context and blameless co-therapist. So nature is the actor and the title for nature's role is the continual context and blameless co-therapist.
You can see this in a picture of the model. If you download the article.
Nature's primary roles are serving as the continual [00:29:00] context. And acting as a blameless co-therapist. Participants valued nature as a dynamic multi-sensory continual context in daily life. Participants appreciated that nature is not only a special place just for delivering therapy services, but the very context in which all human life unfolds. Esther highlighted how the nature environment can be utilized across the lifespan for health benefits. The continual context of nature allows children and caregivers to view therapy as directly applicable to daily life, rather than compartmentalized as something that only happens in clinical settings. In the model nature also serves as a blameless co-therapist participants described nature as an active contributor to the therapeutic process, similar to co-treating. With a therapist. Kelly said nature for me.
I just see it as a therapist. It just co facilitates the therapy process. Participants viewed nature's [00:30:00] real risks and challenges as rich therapeutic opportunities for play and exploration and an unpredictable environment. Nora provided a telling example of this phenomenon. When she described a thunderstorm that rolled in much sooner than expected in the middle of an outdoor session. We had to transition kids really fast from the woods back to my barn, because it was clearly very dark.
As soon as we stepped foot into the barn, it was so windy. It was hailing. It was pouring down rain. And then the funder enlightening clapped right above us. So I had nine year old boys under the table crying because they were so scared from this natural environmental thing. So it was an incredible opportunity to work on regulation and feelings.
And I mean, everything like adapting.
Nature can uniquely offer these adaptation opportunities for children and children's seem to accept nature's challenges because there is no one to blame quote, unquote as Alice explained. In nature. There's no blame, but there's oh, look, what happened? What are we going to [00:31:00] do about this versus in a clinic?
It's just this person moved it. And why did they move it? Why I want them to move it back. I don't want them to move it there. But we can practice and experience those unexpected situations in nature. There's nobody to blame because it's nature. So we're able to just focus on those executive functioning skills of flexibility and adaptation and problem solving just from being out there.
The next actor we're going to talk about is the child.
The child's title is the motivated adventurer.
Participants felt nature-based practice makes therapy feel like a novel adventure for the child leading to deeper engagement in sessions. It allows the child to experience a sense of freedom. To make their own decisions. And explore their own agency to build confidence and competence as the motivated adventurer. Nature inherently promotes a sense of opportunity and wonder and curiosity as Jenelle stated. Which seems to stimulate a child's willingness to attempt tasks [00:32:00] that they may perceive as too challenging and other environments. Participants reported children often show greater intrinsic motivation, outdoors. As Monique said, kids don't look at it as therapy.
They think they're just out playing, having fun.
The practitioner is the third actor. And the practitioner's role is the attuned, analyzer and modulator. As the attuned analyzer, OT practitioners are acutely observant of the child, caregivers and nature throughout the therapy process because the practitioner lacks full control over the outdoor environment. The practitioner analyzes observable responses. Considers contextual elements and underlying factors that may influence the child's participation or performance and serves as a modulator to support the child as needed. As Esmay shared. I have to remind myself, okay, wait, slow down the pace.
Not to be rushing for the next thing. Being mindful of noticing. If children are often [00:33:00] living in this highly activated state. And then if we jump in right away versus waiting, reading that and being attuned to that. What do we do next, actually? Let's do less right. Less is more.
And the final actor in the process are the caregivers.
The caregivers are the contributing beneficiaries. Caregivers was used as a collective term to refer to any caregiver in the child's life, including parents, teachers, or counselors. Caregivers are the contributing beneficiaries as they contribute to and benefit from the nature-based therapy process. Participants observed caregivers, finding their own respite in nature during their child's sessions and expressing gratitude for nature-based OT. Monique shared. We get a lot of feedback from the parents that it is as beneficial for parents and families as it is for the child, because they feel like they're not going to one more hospital, one more clinic.
They're just coming to the farm and they enjoy being out [00:34:00] themselves.
While participants clearly valued caregivers as important contributors and collaborators to help focus treatment on areas of importance. Participants most often reported that services were delivered without caregivers present. Thus caregivers are given a supporting role in the model.
So that is the end of the first section of the results.
And I'm going to stop here because I bet this recording is very long already. I haven't been timing myself, So seeing how much is left of the article. I think what I will do is next week, I will do the phases. And then the week after that, I will do the discussion section because there's a lot of content. Left in this article to cover, and I want this to be manageable. I am trying really hard myself lately, too. Practice, just-in-time learning to not try to bite off more than I can chew.
I was just realizing today. I keep finding books that I've half read all over my house, like next to the bed. And. On my desk and in my [00:35:00] backpack and all the places. So I'm realizing that I want to be very intentional. In my life lately about doing one thing at a time and doing it well. And so I hope. Taking this article and small chunks for these next few podcast episodes, we'll help you to do the same and just kind of chew on the content and think about it a little bit. And then be able to apply it in your work.
I would love, love, love to have your feedback. If you read this article, I've been thinking about maybe doing a little journal club on it, reading it, and then we'll have a discussion inside of the therapy and the great outdoors community. I haven't organized that yet, but if that sounds fun to you, then reach out to me on Instagram and let me know because I'll do it.
If a few people are interested. I might even be able to submit it to AOTA for CEOs. But we'll see.
That's it for this week. Remember I did not mention it at the beginning of the episode, but the deadline to enroll for the nature-based business retreat is coming up. I have not looked at if we got any new [00:36:00] registrant's the last time I looked about a week ago, we had 14 spots left. So if you are interested in the nature-based business retreat, which is happening in Santa Cruz, California, November 7th to the 10th, 2024, you can go to therapyinthegreatoutdoors.com/retreat and get all the info there and you need to sign up by August 1st.
The deadline is firm, so come on and join us. I cannot wait for this event. I'm very excited about it can get all the information at the website there. Okay, I'll see you guys next week. Bye.
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